He should be free to say things that some consider anti-semitic.
His critics should similarly be free to criticize what they characterize as his anti-semitism.
Freedom works both ways.
The trouble comes when the law and the police get involved.
Speech laws, whether in 1918 (Russia), 1933 (Germany) or 2021 (Scotland), always mean intimidation and censorship.
We now live in a country where denunciation has replaced debate. We are the Simpsons without the burning torches.
Personally, I don’t mind hecklers… but if you’re going to indulge in it you’ve got to appreciate there’ll be incoming directed straight back at you.
So, whilst this nonsense has undoubtedly been uncomfortable for all concerned, it has also been educational in that the Israeli couple now know the depth of feeling ordinary people outside their bubble might have about the current situation.
If they didn’t like the hurty feels, just think how the innocent Palestinians feel about the actual bombing. Sticks and stones…
Jerry Sadowitz should just retire now.
I have to concede, I’m a little confused on the correct etiquette here and would value some guidance which is consistent.
Which is the acceptable response?
Is it (a) that the audience who paid good money to be entertained have as much right as the artist to express an opinion in such circumstances – as claimed in this passage:
“If you go to a comedy show and you don’t like a joke, don’t laugh. If you don’t like ANY of the jokes, get up and leave. What you shouldn’t do is loudly start reviewing the show from your chair, because then everyone else – who paid to see the comedian, not listen to you whinging about them – will want to kick your head in for ruining their expensive evening out.
Though in this specific instance no physical violence, only verbal abuse, occurred.
Is it (b) that only the artist and not the paying audience have the right to express a view? As detailed in this passage:
“An Israeli couple in the audience at one of his Fringe shows reacted huffily to a very mild joke about Israel, Hunter fired back an equally mild put-down, and the couple then decided to announce their nationality to the crowd, which was met with predictable hostility from some awful tedious “FREE PALESTINE!” types accusing the couple of being genocidal psychopaths, etc etc.
Is it (c) that the paying audience only have the right to extract physical violence rather than simple verbal abuse? As detailed in the final part of the first quote, above:
“kick (their) head in for ruining their expensive evening out.”
Or is it (d) that the right of a paying audience to respond in such a situation is restricted and excludes specific groups, as clearly advised in this passage….
“and the people screaming about Palestine at them are wankers (because the problem is that they’re heckling, not that they’re Israeli)”
….which conveniently erases the context of what they were heckling about to deny the relevance of that contextual response.
Thanks in advance.
Just this week here in Australia an acclaimed concert pianist, Jayson Gillham, was “cancelled” after he introduced a new composition by describing it correctly.
With “cancel culture” and the weaponizing of “anti-semitism” to silence all criticism, that wasn’t very surprising. Extremely wrong and disturbing, yes. But not surprising if anyone’s been paying attention.
What was interesting about his case was that within a few days (no doubt because of the “Streisand effect” it caused), the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra apologised for the “error” while basically trying to hold the same line they used to cancel him in the first place.
“which was met with predictable hostility from some awful tedious “FREE PALESTINE!” types” So people who protest a genocide by an apartheid state are awful tedious people in your opinion? Then I’m proud as hell to be an awful tedious person.
Baffling by Eastwood Theatre. A couple of years ago when Janey Godleys racist history came to light , multiple complaints made to Eastwood theatre about her upcoming shows there were met with the response that as an arts venue it was not their job to police the language used by performers and Godleys shows went ahead.
I think , whatever anyone’s views on Godley , her comments were infinitely worse than Reginald Hunters.
Hatey,
Not sure which word of Helen Yates’ you refer to.
Lots of people think Israel is an apartheid state committing genocide.
The ICJ, in its interim ruling on South Africa’s case under the Genocide Convention (at pgh. 30), found “In the Court’s view, at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the Convention.”
In some countries questioning some of the details of mass killings by Germany nearly 100 years ago can get you jailed, but in the same countries it’s almost compulsory to question in fine detail (if not outright deny) mass killings carried out by Israel today.
Personally, I’m satisfied that both words used by Helen apply to Israel and I’m free to think that – thankfully – for now.
But equally, I’m thankful that other people still have the freedom to deny that Israel is an apartheid state committing genocide, no matter how repugnant and dangerous I personally find such denial.
Republic of Scotland:
Can anyone on here name any comedian who since Charlie Hebdo in 2015, has actually told a joke involving The Prophet or Islamism. Now that would be a lot braver than poking fun at the Jewish Chronicle.
Firstly – we had the SNP government -having secret meeting with that vile occupying force in the Levant.
Now – we have the Principal, of one of our prestigious universities – meeting with a diplomat from that nasty military regime.
Scotland’s name, must surely have been blacked by now – with this lot.
“A MEETING between the principal of the University of Edinburgh and I-srael-i deputy ambassador to the UK has been harshly criticised by academics at the institution.
In May, more than 500 staff at the University of Edinburgh signed an open letter calling on senior management to immediately divest from “any company directly involved and complicit with the dispossession of Palestinians living under I-sr-ael-i occupation”.
The letter came in the wake of a student encampment in the Old College quad, where students accused the university of investing millions in companies such as Alphabet and Amazon, which supply the I-s-rael-i government.
https://archive.is/9igzS#selection-1805.3-1827.139
Republicofscotland @ 6:23 pm
“In May, more than 500 staff at the University of Edinburgh signed an open letter”
While the motive may be right, they don’t necessarily represent the Scottish people as only around 10% of academic staff at UoE are Scottish. Which is similar to the ratio of Scots MPs at Westminster.
Off topic I know but they are really getting to me now.
Angus Robertson having a meeting of support with Israel when Gaza is ongoing and it appears leaked. Swinney again supporting the unsupportable.
Power lines are being built to take green electricity south while Scots have to pay a surcharge to connect and pay international rates for elect. All at a time when a labour government removed the heating allowance. At the same time the labour government plans a new bridge over the thames.
Silence from the SNP.
I have never seen that comedian in person, but even I know he is not necessarily the sensitive type. His comedy is somewhat ‘robust’. I might go and see him now, just to piss off the whingers. I mean,my goodness, it’s the fringe, FFS. What did the twallies from Israel expect? Fluffy kittens and knock-knock jokes? And just why are Israelis surprised nobody likes them anyway? Seen the news, lately?
Every year now, it seems some wanker will rock up at the fringe, and then whinge about a freaking joke. Boo, f**ing hoo.
As for the police, seriously, FFS. Nothing better to do? are they really going to charge a USA comedian with a hate crime for telling a freaking joke at the Fringe.
WTF is wrong with folk these days? ‘oh, you can’t say that’, or ‘oh, you are cancelled’. Precious, pathetic silly, childish behaviour. If I had been the comedian, I might well have told the whingers to grow the f*** up, it’s a comedy show, so shut the f*** up or f*** the f*** off.
Nobody forced those whingers to go and see that comedian at the fringe.
John Mason?
The list is getting longer.
This is an open door for anyone who’s serious about finishing off the SNP.
Full disclosure of these meetings and how senior SNP people have been briefed can’t be concealed indefinitely when the membership is openly calling for Mason and Robertson to resign.
Swinney is either awaiting orders or he’s following them. In any case, he’s exposed as nothing more than a biddable eejit for whoever’s really running the show.
James Che @ 11:13 am
“one day we may be wary of talking or saying the word Scotland”
Indeed, and even the word ‘independence’ or ‘liberation’ might also become taboo, as is the Scots language.
The aim of colonialism and cultural imperialism is the obliteration of native cultures/languages and the eradication of these national identities. So long as colonialism is permitted to continue the (oppressed) nation and culture is in the process of perishing.
As for oppressive colonial laws, as Frantz Fanon wrote: “The native loses no time in lamentations, and he hardly ever seeks for justice in the colonial framework.”
A colonized people need to rapidly understand this everyday ‘reality’ and their fate if they fail to understand their ‘condition’:
https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf
@ Andrew F
When we consider what J.A has just emerged from , ie years of brutal State-imposed psychological torture and physical attrition – perhaps it’s not surprising he’s taking time out to adjust to his present circumstances . Try to imagine what it must be like for him .
re the subject of this WOS post ; this is where “we’ve” arrived : ANY criticism – however innocuous/comedic – of the * most moral country/army in history * is immediately leapt-on to be censored , banned , cancelled , classified under the weaponised smear of ” Anti-Semitism ” , whilst the horrific inhumanity taking place THERE with the full complicity of Western Govs and their MSM servants/masters is presented to us as a moral battle between – get this – Civilisation v Barbarity . FFS .
No surprise that repellent , wholly-compromised moral leper Angus Robertson is happy to give tacit support to this ” Atrocity Exhibition ” by ” hosting ” one it’s representatives and by extension allowing the perception that Scotland’s too is amongst the despicable Governments either in agreement with and/or too fucking cowardly too condemn , unequivocally , the ACTUAL barbarity by this ” great ally ” in the M.E
What is just as unforgiveable is the pathetic attempt by that walking co-morbidity Swinney to spin this affront to decency by Robertson as a contribution to a resolution of hostilities – or some such bollocks . As if Yahu n his pack of ravenous psychos would be influenced to the slightest degree by anything the SNPGOV might say .
The incredible , intelligence-insulting arrogance of these creeps is off-the-scale ; to such a degree it appears even some of the ” SNP are infallible ” cultists are showing signs of ( long-abandoned ) critical thinking on this .
Could an embryonic spine be forming amongst the Sturgeon-opiated membership ?
As Angus Robertson – and SNP leader John Swinney, had a secret meeting with the UK’s I-s-Ra-eli ambassador a few days back; Robertson is a buddy of Mossad agent Shia Masot – SNP MSPs John Mason lets his mask slip.
“JOHN Mason has had the whip withdrawn from him with “immediate effect”, the SNP has confirmed.
It comes after the MSP published a series of posts on Twitter/X which appeared to deny that a genocide was taking place in G-a-za.
On Friday evening, Mason wrote: “If I-s-ra-el wanted to commit genocide, they would have killed ten times as many.”
In a separate tweet, he wrote: “There is no genocide. If I-s-ra-el wanted to commit genocide, they would have killed many many more.”
A spokesperson for the SNP’s chief whip confirmed that the whip had been withdrawn from Mason with “immediate effect”.
https://archive.is/OyDW0#selection-1769.3-1797.121
“I have to concede, I’m a little confused on the correct etiquette here and would value some guidance which is consistent.”
It’s pretty clearly laid out in the article.
(1) Don’t like some jokes at a comedy show? Shut the fuck up. Nobody came to hear your opinion about anything.
(2) If (1) fails and some wanker starts heckling, leave it to the performer to deal with if possible.
(3) If (2) fails and they’re still heckling, the rest of the audience can shout at them to shut the fuck up.
(4) If (3) fails, it’s down to the venue to eject the troublemaker/s and/or abandon the show and give everyone a refund.
At no point do you have any legitimate entitlement to start screaming that these people support genocide, unless their heckle was “THIS IS NOT FUNNY BECAUSE I SUPPORT GENOCIDE”.
Any questions?
Why is Angus Robertson not resigning over his recent meeting?
Maybe he knows too much about the missing £600,000 and other matters.
Robertson is all over the place and Swinney comes to his rescue saying he approved the meetings.
The story continues and Mason ups the anti and becomes the story.
Funny how mason gets thrown under the bus but not Robertson
Some light relief…
Which will be the first organisation to fold?
Sevco or the SNP?
https://x.com/offtopicscot/status/1824830066502603011
Andy Ellis @ 8:16 am
When you refer to “the less savoury parts of the movement”, unlike you most folks here rightly think of the rapidly diminishing SNP colonial payroll which has been ‘co-opted’ and brought ‘under the wing’ of the colonial power.
As for “the simple meaning of words” why not try the word ‘colonialism’, which has a long-established theoretical basis and meaning not entirely unconnected to the most urgent matter facing Scots and Scotland – self-determination (i.e. decolonization) and liberation from oppression.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/
Unsurprisingly – Craig Murray has revealed that Angus Robertson, and John Swinney are long-term Z–ioni-sts, and that, its all but a prerequisite, to support Z-i-onism – if you wish to enter not just Scottish politics – but UK politics.
Read the article, you might be – or might not be, shocked by it.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/08/the-purpose-of-scottish-independence/
Is the Fringe-o-Caust still running? Maybe the RAF should bomb the railway lines to Edinburgh-witz to stop this war crime (- hey palestinos, HIYA!!! – how ye doin? – did ye keep up the house insurance, your fault if ye didnay, ken … all ahm saying … ) – back to “shit that matters”
this is a talk from one of google’s high heid yins – an insider, a guy who knows tech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOLrv-ypfXc
– this is what is coming down the line, techwise; if you want to survive, you need to be on the right side of it; it’s a bit long, but worth sitting through it. There is also the intriguing status of this talk being “banned” (for reasons unknown) – it is quite candid, and here is a major tech investor describing plainly how tech interfaces with high politics, and geo politics. The sums involved are colossal – 300B USD for data “centers”(!) and hooking up Canada’s hydropower to run it. NB the manhattan project plugged directly into the hoover dam.
Scotland – with its huge, cheap, energy resources, cool climate and excess of water, could be an ideal place to get in on this; plus smart people and advanced chip design functions.
– but you need to have imagination and be in control of the country. We need to cut the rope to England, let it sink into the North Sea, to pay for its bad decisions and its historical crimes.
Scotland, looks bad by comparison to Ireland, Norway, Switzerland – but with the right kind of strategic imagination we could be far, far richer than any of them.
Or you can stick, siamese-twinned to a bunch of cunts, forever, these kleptomaniac narcissists and see the whole fucking lot – oil, gas, leccy, water – carted off down south, and the country used as Leibensraum for all the anglo. bastards. Nice. The sea bed will also be mined for exotic minerals, another bonanza we will not see, they are developing the drone tech for this right now.
– the worst thing about the tr4itors who lead us is how little they sell the country out for.
Another observation – note the vast gulf in intellect between guys like schmidt and e.g. politicians in general, our deadwood in particular.
Make no mistake – there is a massive new wave incoming and you either get in front of it, or are left behind; change is constant, and those left behind will struggle – as schmidt puts it “the rich will get richer and the poor will just have to do … the best they can”
Numbers for people who don’t get numbers – what are we talking about? What is 300B USD?
Scotland GDP = 200B
Norway/Ireland/Switz GDP = 600-800B each
200B is also the profit for one year (2023) for Norway’s Wealth Fund (not the value of it, the yearly profit)
UK GDP inc. Scotland = 3300B = 3.3T
US, China GDP – 20000B approx = over 20T
– a basic hospital costs 100M, an aircraft carrier and planes about 4B; nuke power station 10B (if you used the chinese), 30B if the english try to do it
there is serious talk of using nuclear power plants – “small modular reactors” – to power the data centres.
NB any UK civil servant who is in charge of this tech policy will -automatically- be concerned with getting this new “stuff” for London-Oxford-Cambridge and nowhere else. You can never rid yourself of this south east bias if you are in the UK.
“but why can’t we have nice things?”
– get back in your box, Scotland.
Just remembered something – there was some tit posting a while ago who claimed the windpower wasn’t worth anything because of … OHMS LAW … a fucking certified genius. Military man, I think, which makes sense; “dumb stupid animals, to be led by the nose”. I wonder if he got seconded for one of those foreign wars that UK troops are not involved in, as foreigners can be taught how to work all the highly specialised “kit”, in 5 minutes, which takes 3 years for our lads to train on.
“NICOLA Sturgeon has said she wises more political leaders would read fiction “as a general principle”.”
Surely – Sturgeon the Judas knows, like other Scottish politicians, know fine well, that this union is utterly fictitious.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/06/02/fictional-kingdom-fraudulent-state-2/
We also now know – that, Sturgeon the Betrayer and her party, are not in the slightest bit interested in Scottish independence – that it was all just fiction on their behalf.
“Sturgeon said: “She lives a life that all of us in this country can recognise, and therefore what happens to her suddenly doesn’t seem far away. It’s something we can conceive of and imagine.””
Oh – we recognise a backstabbing b*stard when we see one, that’s for sure, and to be quite honest – I could imagine Sturgeon the Judas far, far away, or more precisely locked up far, far away.
Meanwhile.
“THE Scottish Government has said it will not meet with I–sr-ae-l again until “real progress has been made towards peace”.”
Oh right, so that makes their secret meetings with the I-sra–eli Ambassador to the UK okay then, whilst they are committing G-en0c-ide.
https://archive.is/lfbMk#selection-1771.3-1771.121
Of course – the die-hard Z -ion–ists, Swinney and Robertson – will say just about anything – to limit the damage to their reputations.
@ Confused
Aye, there really needs to be a serious, open, and frank discussion on what is going on with our energy resources.
It seems all these new wind farms are coming online and capable of generating huge amounts of leccy well over our current demand requirements, but are also unable to supply that power into the grid because the development of grid infrastructure is lagging way behind the rate at which the new farms are being created.
This means very large amounts of subsidies are getting paid to the companies operating these windfarms in curtailment charges to cover them not generating leccy.
How will this play out when ten times the generation capacity comes online in Scotland’s geographic area when we aren’t even capable of utilising what we currently generate.
Even if the grid infrastructure was brought up to cope with our needs, are we still going to be paying subsidies to companies not to produce amounts of electricity it would be theoretically impossible for us to ever use.
Yesterday according to this linked to site, the Seagreen wind farm off the Angus cost was in curtailment mode from midday to 6pm. It could have been generating approximately 75% of the 1.1GW output potential from the 6 zones in the farm, but instead was effectively switched off. Dump this excess power to Ninewells or Aberdeen hospitals and save these health authorities paying massive leccy bills from their budgets.
The linked to site is a bit finicky to view but if you click Seagreen and look under “Back to List” on bottom lefthand corner, then there’s a stupidly wee window where you can just about view outputs showing curtailment and generation modes. Best just keep to the first main overview of the entire farm for simplicity. Custard colour is curtailment and generation is grey, and as you can see there’s way more curtailment than generation going on.
* NB From a bit of searching Seagreen may not be receiving full curtailment payments as appears to have a percentage of its generation under “merchant” status which just sells what it can as and when required and might not get paid not to produce, which presumably will be details incorporated into the overall contractual agreement.
https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com
And 20% of GB grid power is currently being imported from mainland Europe, presumably by the some of the same companies that are getting paid not to produce leccy here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Unfortunately and disappointingly Wings btl seems all but done as a platform for discussing this sort of stuff. Could it be revived or does anybody know of another site which could be utilised to host discussion.
——-
Wonder if Reginald D Hunter was contacted by the same Times journalist that called Doug Stanhope 12 years ago after his Fringe performance.
8 mins comedy with swearing NSFWScotland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ayctCub8FE
While musing on Dan Da Man’s welcome return btl, I keep thinking about BBC “Scotland” and its treatment of the announcement of The Great Energy Super-Highway Robbery *chews carpet and simultaneously extracts claymore (metaphorically, Police Scotland) from the thatch*
Was there even a single word from the SNP about this gross theft of our resources while we still suffer enormous energy prices in Scotland?
Must have been too busy cosying up to politicians from a country plausibly accused of genocide to care.
Ain’t Scottish politics lively and busily holding those in positions of power and influence to account…
Last week Republicofscotland commented on Scottish Water bosses getting big bonuses.
Were those tens of thousands of pounds of bonuses for continuing to pump thousands of gallons a day of untreated effluent into our biggest river where the largest rod caught 64lb salmon was caught by Miss Georgina Ballantine?
That ongoing pollution is not due to a fault, that is the archaic sewer system working as it should. Those big bonuses could have gone towards upgrading the poor existing infrastructure and work towards reducing pollution in our rivers.
It would be a relatively easy project to upgrade sewer systems on the river and see if stopping pumping thousands of gallons a day of untreated effluent into the Tay improved the eco system and more Salmon returned to the water.
They only get away with pumping that large volume of untreated effluent into the river due to the large flow rate which dilutes and disperses it more than if the same volume was pumped into a smaller river.
Of course folk may recall my mentioning of the farcical way a local sewer and pollution fault was “dealt”. Which totally lacked any dynamic thought and nous on taking that opportunity to implement an upgrade rather than pissing away hundreds of thousands to repair the old compromised system which continues to pollute day in day out.
Is every one in control of these sort of things an utter moron?
I wonder if the SNP previous sneering about elected Constituency MSPs some being superior to Regional MSPs will stand. The latest forecast for 2026 is the SNP will lose 42 Constituency MSPs. Partly mitigated by a 20 Regional MSPs gain. It’s the electoral system. Still a net loss of 22 MSPs for the SNP.
Post-Salmond the SNP didn’t listen to the electorate – they went down their own route of consolidating power, and threatening and punishing anyone within the party that said – wait a minute this isn’t going to work – on top of that, they did their utmost to kick anything meaningful, to do with Scottish independence – into the long grass – unless of course they needed it to get re-elected, then, it was wheeled out and used to fool the indy masses.
On top of the above, they persecuted prominent indy bloggers who questioned what they were up to – Craig Murray – the Rev, and Mark Hirst, springs to mind; not to mention what they attempted to do to Alex Salmond – and all using taxpayers cash.
The SNP post-Salmond not only sold us out on indy – they abandoned it altogether, and replaced it with a unpopular gender policies such as the GRRB – which the English government blocked.
Countless mandates for indy were wasted – 600k given to help secure indy, is still missing – the SNP party is under a police investigation , with one prominent person already charged with embezzlement; we gave the SNP their chance post-Salmond to achieve indy – and they didn’t even try to – instead, they turned their backs on us, we the electorate – and pushed ahead with their own agendas.
The SNP have had their chance – post-Salmond, to bring about the dissolving of this illegal union – to continue to vote for them would be madness – we must remove the SNP wherever we find them, especially in the 2026 Scottish elections; the Greens also must be removed they too are a roadblock to indy.
The problem is who to vote for, come the 2026 Scottish elections – not the SNP nor the Greens – nor the Lib/Dems or BLiS, or even the vile Tories – all are compromised, and they don’t have Scots best interests at heart. I’d have to say vote for Alba or ISP candidates, where they are standing in your constituency – a vote for any other party – is a vote to keep Scots chained England.
All these platitudinous musings matter not a jot.
Accounts for financial year ending 31st December 2023 are imminent. The last set of accounts were published by the Electoral Commission on 24th August last year. Some delay is expected due to the crash GE.
The Party is effectively insolvent even before a £1 million annual reduction in Short money from the British State kicks in.
It is staggering that senior SNP types are happy to have talks with Genocidal Israeli representatives but will not sit down in the same room with ALBA, ISP or Salvo.
As the Romans once said of Carthage. The SNP must be destroyed. Completely and forever.
THE PUPPY by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
In our back yard a boy keeps his little dog Sharik chained up, a ball of fluff shackled since he was a puppy.
One day I took him some chicken bones that were still warm and smelt delicious. The boy had just let the poor dog off his lead to have a run round the yard. The snow there was deep and feathery; Sharik was bounding about like a hare, first on his hind legs, then on his front ones, from one corner of the yard to the other, back and forth, burying his muzzle in the snow.
He ran towards me, his coat all shaggy, jumped up at me, sniffed the bones—then off he went again, belly-deep in the snow.
I don’t need your bones, he said. Just give me my freedom.
(Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Stories and Prose Poems. Translated by Michael Glenny – New York, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1971)
The betrayal of Scotland by the SNP is bad enough, but it is not limited to the SNP’s MPs; that betrayal is perpetrated by all of Scotland’s MPs every time they give way to a majority vote by England’s MPs! Not a single one of Scotland’s MPs has ever had the guts or the nous to point out to our English overlords that England’s MPs are not remotely entitled to any authority over Scotland, nor over Scotland’s MPs, and that Scotland’s sovereignty cannot be set aside by any English MP majorities.
The Treaty of Union did NOT put Scotland under English governance, it put both Scotland and England under the joint governance of a shared parliament where their two bodies of representatives could negotiate, coordinate, and jointly agree that governance face to face. Nothing in the Treaty or Acts of Union mandates that Scotland’s MPs must submit to English MP’s decisions. And, nothing in the Treaty or Acts of Union mandates that a single flat voting system must be used to determine the outcomes of debates between those two MP bodies.
If you wish to disagree with either of those statements then damn well pony up the relevant clauses from the relevant articles from those documents that spell out those obligations.
If those obligations were formally agreed by both kingdoms then those agreements must be IN those documents and not elsewhere, or else they cannot hold any formal constitutional standing.
Wow, the SNP hierarchy really seem to have bought the ‘oh, folk don’t want independence anymore, they have more important things to worry about‘ unionist-created narrative.
They are sitting back, literally waiting for something to change, instead of actually making it happen. Analogies might well be made of the key protagonists in ‘waiting for Godot’. Endlessly following the same process, same patterns of behavior, eternally wondering when ‘it’ might happen. Waiting.
The point is, of course,folk DO still want independence. It’s just that right now we have no people in power willing to do sweet F all to actually make it happen.
As for the SNP, it’s like every last one of them, top to bottom, is in a drug-induced stupour. Happily swilling the Kool-aid, that everything will be ‘all right’ All they need to do is ‘forge strong working relationships with the English colonial government’. Mugs.
Honestly, anybody with half a brain can see that for decades, and even more so under London Labour, Scotland is as a country, akin to a frog being slowly boiled. Labour know they cannot just shut the Scottish parliament all at once, so drip, drip, drip, step by step, they are removing its authority, whilst stealing Scotland’s wealth and resources.
This year, England is stealing our electricity. Next year England’s Labour government will steal our water, then it will be the air we breath.
Boiling the frog slowly. That is Labour’s plan for Scotland. And the SNP still sit around doing nothing, but blame voters, waiting, waiting.
Labours plans to increasingly undermine the Scottish Parliament are now official. Expect more by the autumn budget.
“Labour plan to bypass Holyrood and give direct spending powers to Westminster-run Scotland Office”
https://archive.is/kvjZC#selection-1089.0-1089.97
aLurker
Ignored
says:
20 August, 2024 at 10:18 pm
“Labour plan to bypass Holyrood and give direct spending powers to Westminster-run Scotland Office”
Were Scotland to impeach Holyrood now, on the basis of its Vichy tendencies and unconstitutional improprieties, the action would have some potency and international significance.
Allow Holyrood to be diminished even further, either by the dysfunctional imbeciles in the SNP, or by the Westminster Government which created it, will render Holyrood’s subsequent impeachment increasingly academic and insignificant.
In short, Scotland should show some initiative and seize the bragging rights for the destruction and expulsion of the supine, corrupt and unconstitutional Vichy Assembly masquerading as our Parliament and seat of”Government”.
Think Swinney capable of that? The gutless Swinney couldn’t run a bath.
On a more positive slant, when Scotland finally is ready for proper self Government, (do hurry up ffs), it will ditch Holyrood as effortlessly as it will shed every other vestige of colonial Westminster rule and unconstitutional encroachment.
Once you see Holyrood for the sham that it is, you cannot un-see it.
@ Breeks
Like yourself , and many others , I’d relish something like Impeachment being effected on the clown troupe that has presided over the unbelievable trashing of Scotland post-Salmond – what it’s done not only to the formidable , energised , ready-to-take-the-next decisive step Independence Movement , also the very socio/political/judicial fabric of our country .
They’ve created a ” dinner ” even a hungry dog would find inedible
The question is ” how ? ” .
What would/could be the mechanics of such an Impeachment process
Who/what would do the impeaching ?
From where would it draw it’s authority ?
How would any penalty/punishment as a result of such impeachment be enforced ?
IF , big one , but if it did come to pass , it would be a delicious irony if it , ie the range of Impeachment was ” applied retrospectively ” – like the fuckers did in their conspiracy to destroy Alex Salmond .
Sturgeon should be the first name on any Impeachment list . The damage she done in office and the poisonous legacy she has bequeathed our country would , in other times , have merited the severest punishment possible .
Not believing in Capital Punishment , I’d settle for permanent banishment from the country – supposedly her country – she has inflicted so much pain and discord on
Dorothy Devine @ 9:34 am
“Depressed , oppressed, repressed , suppressed Scotland.”
Aye, a colonized fowk are aye a Doun-Hauden fowk gaun naiwhaur fest, a fowk pit richt oot the gemme (a condition known as ‘calcification’ in postcolonial theory).
The people first need to understand their oppression in order to find the anely remeedy, whit is decolonization an leeberation. Scots colonial oppression is nae different fae whit wis imposed on Indians, Kenyans, Irish, Welsh an loads o ither fowks an naitions.
Tae be free, a colonized fowk hiv tae cast oot the colonial yoke in aw its mankit naitur. Its a great tragedy the dominant national party elites do not know this, for they have never undertaken a reasoned study of colonial society. Instead they have been ‘brought under the colonizer’s wing’ where they become the oppressors ‘confidential agents’ (Fanon) and work against the people:
Six days after the General Election – John Swinney became a member of the UK Privy Council for life (by Invitation of the Prime Minister (Keir Starmer) – and is now sworn to secrecy and loyalty to his fellow members(for life) – fellow life time members of the UK Privy Council – which is the real government of the UK – the hidden hand – includes Jim Murphy, Ruth Davidson, Michael Forsyth (Thatcher’s favourite), Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford, DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson and Arlene Foster, Angus Robertson (since 2016 – was he meeting the Israeli in his capacity as a Rt. Hon member of UK privy Council for life and that is why the meeting was kept secret – all sworn to secrecy for life remember) and hundreds of other retired and sitting MPs-MSPs
Other members for life include certain bankers and business bosses (aka Lords and Ladies) AND MOST OF THE SENIOR JUDGES OF SCOTLAND and rest of UK – they all claim are completely indpendent of politics, politicians and parliament)
Is this why Scottish Green MSP, Alison Johnstone, wrote on the Scottish Green website
“The UK Privy Council is the least democratic part of the British Government”
After Alison accepted the invitation to become Rt. Hon Alison Johnston (for life) when she accepted her invitation to become a Rt. Hon Member of UK Privy Council on 16th March 2022 she was asked to explain and expand on the above statement – she refused to answer (is it because she’s now sworn to secrecy for life too?
THERE IS ONE NATIONALIST WHO REFUSED THE INVITATION TO JOIN – as it is optional – NO SNP leaders have refused – it was a Northern Irish Judge – who believes UK should be a Republic (Alex Salmond claimed to be Republican for years – then sold his soul (and YES movement out – before it was even created – to become the Rt Hon Alex Salmond member of the real government of UK (sworn to secrecy) FOR LIFE
The SNP didn’t even bother their arse to educate the populace of our colonised situation, let alone think the nation’s liberty was in jeopardy if formal autonomy was not installed, left too long, and multi-mandates squandered.
The SNP – are robbing Peter – to pay Paul.
“The SNP’s membership numbers have fallen to 64,525, but the party has also posted a budget surplus.
Accounts published online by the Electoral Commission today show the party have lost 9411 members since last year, down from a total of 73,936.
The accounts also show that the SNP has recorded a surplus of £661,568 for the year ending December 2023 thanks to a levy imposed on local branches.
It marks a turnaround from last year’s accounts, when the party recorded a deficit of £804,278.”
https://archive.is/qhSFf#selection-1759.3-1787.1
The self-coronated leader of the SNP – and FM by default – John Swinney, desperately trying to backtrack here.
“John Swinney has held talks with the head of the Palestinian mission to the UK, discussing the situation in the Gaza Strip. Scotland’s First Minister spoke by video call to Dr Husam Zomlot on Wednesday afternoon, with Mr Swinney expressing his “support for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza”.”
However what he is – has been exposed by Craig Murray.
“Swinney and Robertson are of course long term Zionists, as is almost the entire UK political class (and mark my words, there are few members of the British political class with their feet more firmly under the UK political structures table than Swinney and Robertson).”
First Minister John Swinney has a terrible record of collaboration with Israel.
Eden Springs was an Israeli settler owned water company, bottling water from the illegally occupied Syrian Golan Heights. They opened a subsidiary company in Scotland which was the subject of much controversy a decade ago, with a huge and successful boycott movement, especially among students.
As Scottish Minister for Trade and Industry, Swinney actually gave Eden Springs £200,000 of Scottish government money to help them overcome the effects of the boycott.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/08/the-purpose-of-scottish-independence/
coincidence theorists out there will note – SNP surplus 661K which is almost
600K (indy ref fund)
+
60K (owed to mundell)
so … “nothing to see here, move along” / the system works / turned out alright again / sturgeons vindicated
or the result of frantic manipulations we have not seen the last of.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/13397810/snp-owe-nicola-sturgeon-husband-peter-murrell/
great photo of mundell there – has that “don’t look on my hard drive special folders” of a man taking his laptop to PC World for a repair
bit dead in here. It’s like a party – you need one bampot to give it a buzz; anymore than 1 bampot and you’re fucked.
I would be astonished if they have anything like 60,000 members left.
It appears that they have nothing left but lies.
If the SNP had 125,000 members, even taking account for election spend, surely the party should have been wading in cash?
As Wings says here, it doesn’t make sense.
Add in the audio tech payments and you start to wonder if the party has been hollowed out financially.
I just cannot grasp how a party on 25k members in 2007-12 could have the merch and general marketing pomp it did, while 125k YEARLY can barely send a raffle letter round.
It doesn’t make sense.
I’d say – if there’s no openness by the SNP, on their membership figures – then it more than likely the party’s hierarchy, are hiding the true size of the rush by members, to ditch the party.
The SNP are – in effect, unsavable now – the sooner the party crashes and burns – the sooner we can, if not move forward, at least regroup – and look to the future; for the SNP since Salmond’s departure, have not only governed terribly, they’ve been the main stumbling block, to moving forward towards ditching this illegal union.
For those, who truly support an indy Scotland – there’s nothing, and no one, left in the SNP worth saving – and come the 2026 Scottish elections – we must vote the SNP and the Greens out of office – well as many as we possibly can – it goes without saying if you support Scottish independence, that you never, vote for a London HQ branch office political party in Scotland – so, that also rules out voting for, the Lib/Dems, BLiS, and the Tories, come the 2026 Scottish elections – whose left to vote for, I hear to ask.
Alba, and the ISP – where you find them standing in your constituency – is the best I have to offer, at least for the time being.
“It’s a bit weird for figures made up to 31 December 2023 to be talking about June 2024, but we’ll let that slide”
Rev, you are a very smart, good willed and also generous man. By contrast, I am an ungenerous cynic.
Whoever wrote that bit of text in the second picture claims that “the SNP is a party whose most significant source of income are their members and supporters”.
If that is truly the case, then, in my view, it is beyond weird that they refer to the membership on 1 June 2024 when attempting to justify the “income” they included in the accounts presented up to the 31 December 2023. It is suspicious.
The membership figure could have halved or multiply per 2 in the space of 6 months. I can think in two potential reasons as to why not revealing the correct membership figures up to 31 Dec 2023 could be convenient:
a) They cannot account for some of the income from all the members they claim to have had up to 31 Dec 2023 (because they either lost it or spent it on something they rather do not include in the accounts). If membership figures from June 2024 are lower, using that figure rather than the correct one could help them disguise that discrepancy.
b)If their membership figures have recently increased, then they could be attempting to attribute to membership fees some income received during 2023 that might have come from a source they rather not reveal.
I do not believe for even a second that their membership figures on 1 June 2024 are the same as they were up to 31 Dec 2024. I think the membership has decreased since Dec 2023. A few things happened since then that did not put the SNP under a good light. I therefore suspect a) is more likely than b)
This bit really made me laugh:
“Our members continue to suffer the same cost of living pressures as everybody else. This impacts not only on membership income, but on donations and fundraising income too”
This magnificent display of verbal acrobatics to justify a tanking income without mentioning the real reason behind it, deserves a medal for outstanding attempt at insulting the average voter’s intelligence.
In the context of 10 years of cock ups, refusing to progress independence even an inch, and showing the uttermost contempt for women and yes voters in general, to even indirectly suggest the decrease in membership is due to people not being able to afford the fee is a step too far. Even for them. I think they are being deliberately insulting.
TBQH I wouldn’t be surprised if the snp pervert and deviant party were not receiving financial support from other avenues and means, the deviant party pushing the GRRB and HCB are pulling the proverbial rabbit out of a very deep hat, surely the financial officer has evidence of the membership numbers in the form of individuals names and addresses which will be verified by the EC
I find it extremely hard to believe that there are 70,000 people who are so BRAINWASHED that they could entertain the belief that the snp are interested in independence in any way and that their governance over the past 10 years has any semblance of competence
I know dozens of people who joined the SNP between 2007 and 2012. Not one of them is still a member. I am sure many on Wings could tell the same story.
They lied to us. They betrayed us. They stole from us.
I want them destroyed. The end cannot come quick enough.
Geoff Anderson @ 7:21pm, give it time. The SNP is on the slide to oblivion. Their surplus comes from not paying branches their share of membership fees. That amount has been written down by almost $490,000. They can do that – sort of – one more time by keeping back the other $350,000. Then they have to rely on branches supplying them with money when there is a levy. However, as branch numbers fall, it is reasonable to assume there will be less money in branch bank accounts.
Their pile of Short Money is going to get even shorter in 2024 and, in 2025 it will drop off a cliff.
Although the SNP is a bit healthier, financially, than it was last year, the vast majority of what their in-house comic calls a “budget surplus” is merely a result of paper-shuffling. also observe the fifth paragraph in “Financial Statements 2023” on page 1 of the annual report. Legacies can take some time to be received but the mere mention of that in the Annual Report should worry any SNP member and certainly those on the NEC, who bear financial responsibility for the party.
Wullie B, yes they found the money down the back of settees in every corner of Scotland, converted the DRS machines to cash counters and got it into the bank.
In truth, they have used accounting tricks. As an accounting professional, I hardly ever use that term but I think it is apt here. They have basically stolen from the branches by not giving them money due to branches from member subs collected. Cash at bank is almost exactly the same as last year.
The people have finally realised what postcolonial theory (Fanon) confirms: that the dominant national party ‘moves ever closer to colonialism’; that it ‘behaves like a gang’; it ‘builds up its pensions’; it ‘attacks so-called radicals in the movement’; it ‘takes the people up a blind alley’; it ‘ruptures the movement’; and it becomes ‘part of the colonial racket’. That is why the SNP is finished.
It is incredible the speed of decline of the party that under Alex Salmond, gave Scots some real hope.
Even if the SNP decided as of today, they were genuinely going to work for independence, and stop all the gender loony nonsense, I could NEVER go back to being a member.
Two main reasons, firstly those who set out to conspire against a wholly innocent man, Alex Salmond, which could have seen him taken from his wife, to die in jail in shame, have still not been punished. Indeed some in the party still cannot help but smear him with false innuendo. Secondly, I will never, ever believe a political party wants independence, when its CEO, is a former editor of a rampantly brit nat unionist newspaper, and who devised the lying ‘vow’, to the people of Scotland to prevent them voting for independence.
The SNP, in my opinion, is now a ‘puppet’ government of London, just like we used to see in colonial days abroad. They can whine and moan, but will never actually stand up to London, or actually pursue independence. All to ensure corruption, conspiracy and perjury do not reach the courts. That’s how it works – in a vassal state. Sham democracy, sham rule of law.
The whole thing stinks. Scotland is NOT a democracy, not in any way. Right now we have one MP, Iain (union jack boy) Murray, being gifted powers to do whatever he wishes in Scotland, with no recourse to the democratically elected Scottish parliament – a parliament voted into existence, let us not forget, by the PEOPLE of Scotland. Iain Murray, England’s colonial governor of Scotland. He should, with great speed be run out of our country. He has NO democratic authority to rule Scotland. None.
Meanwhile, the SNP say, they are trying to forge ‘good relations’ with the English Labour Government, and their colonial serf, Murray.
We should more correctly now refer to them as ‘England’s SNP’. Doffing their caps and doing what they are told.
This is Comedy Gold, from the BBC propagandist – Douglas Fraser, yes, we know the National is pro-SNP – but for a die-hard propagandist, from a die-hard propaganda news outlet – the BBC, to come out, and criticise a newsrag for producing propaganda, when his English ran propaganda news channel the BBC – is the king of pumping out British propaganda.
“A SENIOR BBC Scotland journalist is facing questions over impartiality after describing The National as “propaganda” multiple times live on air.
During a broadcast of BBC Radio 4’s Media Show with Ros Atkins this Wednesday, BBC Scotland’s business and economy editor Douglas Fraser joined the panel to discuss challenges facing the Scottish media.”
https://archive.is/bnSLc#selection-1779.3-1803.88
The ISP did okay here – they’ll do better, if we keep voting for them – and come the 2026 Scottish Elections – if we keep on voting for them – they might gain some seats – hopefully lots of them.
“The Independence for Scotland party, led by Colette Walker, came in fourth place. The party returned 8.6% of first-preference votes, beating the Tories (8.2%), LibDems (4.4%) and Scottish Greens (2.7%).”
https://archive.is/d4YJk#selection-1859.0-1869.8
O/T: Sara Salyers’ petition to Holyrood to make Angus Robertson resign has found that signatures have been blocked. Sara asks people who think they have signed already to try signing again. The petition is on https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/respect-for-international-law-angus-robertson-must-resign
So – a company wanted to drop bombs of World Heritage site in Scotland. It make you wonder, what the foreign MoD of England – has done at Faslane and Cape Wrath.
“AN ARMS firm has scrapped plans to test bombs in the middle of a Scottish World Heritage Site.
Overwatch, a UK company, was revealed by The Guardian to have asked the Civil Aviation Authority for permission to drop anti-personnel bombs with drones onto Flow Country land owned by the Liberal Democrat peer John Thurso.
The Flow Country became the UK’s newest Unesco World Heritage Site in July, the first peatland bog to ever gain the prestigious status and Scotland’s first natural World Heritage Site.”
https://archive.is/ei9XK#selection-1775.3-1799.110
Scotland – is expendable in the yes of Westminster – or to be more precise it people were, and maybe still are.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20130324/282106339089564
Debatable Lands @ 5:46 am
“There has always been a myth in the independence debate that small nation government would automatically be better. I’d love to see evidence that is true,”
The price of colonialism (aka ‘the ‘Union’) for Scots is at least £150 billion a year, and rising:
Robert Louis @6.58am.
England – has used the remoteness of some Scottish islands, to carry out dangerous experiments – in the past – are these, or similar types of experiments – still going on in Scotland? who knows.
“In 1952, just a few years after the start of the Cold War and less than a decade since the catastrophic atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a secret and potentially deadly military operation was carried out in the Hebrides.
As Nukes, Subs & Secrets reveals, the military was worried about the potential for an international ban on nuclear weapons and had begun developing biological weapons in their place — in breach of international protocols. These new weapons of mass destruction contained the bubonic plague.
A secluded beach on the Isle of Lewis was selected to host the project. Its location in the extreme north west of the British Isles offered the military space and privacy to carry out its top secret work.
Twenty miles north of the island’s capital Stornoway, pontoons containing live guinea pigs and monkeys were moored a few hundred yards from the shoreline. Clouds of bubonic plague were exploded above them and the effects monitored. In total 3500 guinea pigs and 83 monkeys were exposed to testing.”
Alf Baird says: “Yes, the SNP elite are Neoliberals in terms of political ideology, and co-opted colonialists in their day job deceit.”
You’re always on point, Alf, and never more so than above. The SNP funding obviously comes from avenues other than membership fees (the hidden hand), from short money (colonial bribes) and the wider neoliberal corporations, globalist organisations and oligarchs. This is apparent from all the policies instituted by the SNP which were copied directly from the Democratic Party playbook. After all, the SNP with only half a brain cell to share between them couldn’t think up all those harebrained social policies on their own (tools of division from within that they are)! Meanwhile, the SNP are overseeing the extreme (and obscene) wealth transference and extraction by the neoliberal forces that Scotland is subject to without any defence of the realm. Our sovereignty and our rights are eroded and degraded on a daily basis whilst we are subjected to the tribalistic politics of war triumphed by the Anglo-American-Psyonist triad of evil.
And it seems the West has learned nothing from the Second World War. This is from Albert Speer’s memoirs “Inside the Third Reich”:
‘I thought of the consequences that unrestricted rule together with the power of technology – making use of it but also driven by it – might have in the future. This war, I continued, had ended with remote-controlled rockets, aircraft flying at the speed of sound, atom bombs, and a prospect of chemical warfare. In five to ten years it would be possible for an atomic rocket, perhaps serviced by ten men, to annihilate a million human beings in the centre of New York within seconds. It would be possible to spread plagues and destroy harvests. “The more technological the world becomes, the greater is the danger…As the former minister in charge of a highly developed armaments economy it is my last duty to state: A new great war will end with the destruction of human culture and civilisation. There is nothing to stop unleashed technology and science from completing its work of destroying man which it has so terribly begun in this war…”’
Hatey McHateface @ 10:03 am
“The idea that every year post-Indy, we’ll be divvying up 150 bill between us I would politely categorise as snake oil.”
If we are not subject to colonial plunder then I suppose you must have another more valid explanation for energy/whisky /fish/tourism/etc-rich Scots being made into the poorest people in NW Europe? Do tell?
GDP-PER-CAPITA BY COUNTRY, 2021/22
Norway – $106,149
Ireland – $104,039
Switzerland – $92,101
Denmark – $60,345
Faroe Islands – $59,699
Greenland – $57,116
Iceland – $56,429
Sweden – $55,873
Netherlands – $50,546
Belgium – $49,843
UK – $47,923
Finland – $46,929
Scotland – $40,325
“here’s what you could have won … ”
“- they are doing well enough, but imagine how great these countries could have been if they too had been part of the most successful political union in history?”
SAID NO_ONE, EVER
Alf forgot about Luxembourg. And what do these countries have in common?
– EFTA. Not the EU. And not FGS, the UK.
Scotland would be better off, have more power and autonomy as a state of the US than an “equal partner in the UK” – and that would be insane. But what does it say if “the insane thing” would be better than what you have now??
Are we “double insane”?
The excellent dystopian thriller “children of men” was on a few days ago; this is where England is at, right now, the future is here. A lot of little englanders will be looking to literally “head for the hills”, i.e. our hills, to Scotland, while the rest of it falls apart and the political elite resorts to police state tactics to force the diversity, wokeness, neoliberalism and foreign war mongering down everyones throats. (Did you see how fast the justice system moves when white working class people get out of line?)
Scotland will be “on the hook” to fix the problems the english created for themselves; fuck them, let them burn. They deserve it.
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